A day spent with a long-lost genius

 

                                    Martin Branson, Clear Creek Crossing Review, Vol. 17, No. 2 Feb. 15, 2020

 

 

Uncle Tad Baker remains one of the most enigmatic theater directors in the United States. His landmark work, Uncle Tad Baker's Loon Show, became the blueprint for the many audience-participation reality shows that sprang up in the 1990's, not to mention the stuff of legend.

 

I have known Baker since he and his Loon Show first appeared in San Francisco. I attended three different shows and was on the verge of publishing a review when Baker unexpectedly dropped out of sight immediately after his hugely successful show had become a hit. I could never get a satisfactory explanation for why he so suddenly disappeared, and his whereabouts have remained unknown, until he surfaced again this past year. Rather, having never given up the search for Baker, and scouring the Internet periodically for clues, I finally stumbled into an interview with Baker, from Montesque's Modern Madness Online Journal.

 

This interview became my only link back to the one man who performed events that I not only had never seen before, but have been craving for some way to revisit, or at least have access to the video records and/or whatever documents may exist. Yes, the shows were that memorable. Yet I soon learned that not a single image has been released from Baker's vaults in all these years, nor has he performed the Loon Show anywhere since he shut it down so long ago. Why?

 

Questions have been piling up on my notepad since I found that interview last fall. I wrote to him several times and finally received a kindly reply, inviting me to actually come up to his house for a visit in January, which I accepted, spending the better part of a day at his home in Northern California, a Mediterranean-style home out in the foothills near Chico. The weather was pleasant, the scenery relaxing, and Baker and his wife gracious and friendly.

 

I was surprised to learn that he had long ago disbanded the Institute of Absurdity, was no longer in touch with any of the Institute members or Loons (with the exception of Myron the Moron), that his purported 'Master', Demetrius Toteras, had recently passed on and that Baker, sadly, had become paralyzed in a motorcycle racing accident over 20 years ago and has been in very poor health for some time. While I'd read this in the interview and expected to see someone in a wheelchair crumbling under the weight of his condition, I was relieved to find a robust, vigorous and contented man despite his infirmity. You would never know that Baker is paralyzed; his spirit certainly isn't. His enthusiasm and good-natured ways are infectious and uplifting; no mention was ever made of his discomfort or the difficulties he surely endures, although I was mildly taken aback when, in the middle of a thought, he suddenly excused himself, leaned back in his wheelchair, took a plastic catheter from a side pocket and proceeded to urinate right in front of me, without breaking his thought!

 

Baker insisted we speak of the Loon Show - clearly his great pride - in the present tense, as I soon learned he has been not only editing the original videos into a soon-to-be-released movie, but that Baker is bent on reviving the show and bringing it back in full force. While I found his claim to be somewhat hard to believe  - I privately wondered how he could perform from a wheelchair - I do not doubt that he is sincere.

 

While he refused to speak about why he suddenly went underground or what happened to the Institute or even what he's been doing all these years since he left San Francisco, "Maybe some other time I'll actually tell you what happened, but not now..." I was not left disappointed. Baker's exuberance made for one of the most invigorating afternoons I have spent in a long while. I went away, despite my customary doubts, actually believing that, somehow, Baker and his band of Loons would soon appear again, to the delight of an unsuspecting American audience who, as Baker so enthusiastically stated, “...fucking needs this show, man.”

 

I have left the interview largely as it took place, feeling that Baker's evocative style - and my occasional perplexity, which allowed openings for further diatribes - were crucial to understanding this charismatic figure.

~

 

MB: Even though your show hasn't been performed in over 30 years, I'm going to treat it as if it's ongoing.

 

TB: Which it is, Marty, the Loon Show never died, it just...hibernated, man...

 

MB: In an interview in Bananafish, you said, “Art is remembering the feeling.” What did you mean?

 

TB: Exactly what I said. Art is really the expression of some fantastic feeling, some experience in our lives which somehow touched us deeply. Art is the very attempt at communicating this feeling, and 'Pataphysics is the vehicle I employ to communicate just that.

 

MB: I've never been able to understand what is meant by that term, 'Pataphysics', yet you mention it as if it's a commonly-used concept. Can you briefly explain it?

 

TB: Sure, 'Pataphysics is a branch of philosophy that deals with imaginary solutions, and is the specific discipline I use in my work. With 'Pataphysics, we use our imagination to create solutions to the conditions and/or problems we're faced with. In my shows, 'Pataphysics allows me to function in dis-unity, and teaches me to make Strife a beautiful thing. 'Pataphysics requires tremendous schooling in the intuitive sciences, however, and is really only effective when rooted in Classical Ethics, but from where I sit/

 

MB: Wait, Classical Ethics? How does that apply to...this is theater, so...you're losing me here.

 

TB: Hang on, Marty (laughs). Look, ethics is the backbone, the masthead of the imagination; without ethics, the Imagination, ever self-oriented, will cheat and scam and is effectively worthless as a tool in aiding Mankind. With ethics, though, Classical Greek Ethics, which emanate from the soul, the 'Pataphysician is guided by his own internal understanding of Right and Wrong, yet because all this comes from the soul, because he is empathetic and has suffered...man, every 'Pataphysician necessarily suffers, believe me... because he feels and has felt what others feel, his decisions are made for the betterment of all people. Look, without the study of...you look lost.

 

MB: No, keep going, tell me some more of your theories, even if they may be a little over my head.

 

TB: Alright, well, I'm studying Absurdity and Being in my plays, which have multiple levels and which creates paradox, in fact, paradox is the Passion of Thought, and paradox, along with social homeopathy, are the real subjects of 'Pataphysics.

 

MB: Social homeopathy...wow, Tad, I'm not sure if...

 

TB: Then let me come down from Theoretic Mountain for a bit.

 

MB: No, it's alright...Tad, you mention the Classical Greeks; why do you focus on them exclusively and not, say, Shakespeare or the Renaissance artists, and how does that apply to your work?

 

TB: Nothing against Shakespeare or the Enlightenment, but I go to the source of things. I've never felt the need for mediators or middle men, or interpretations of interpretations. The Greek Masters have presented the themes from which all my plays are based. Let's get this straight right now: what I do has nothing to do with attempts at forging original works. There is nothing that the Greeks didn't see; every theme I use comes directly from the Masters, and my job is to perform these themes, bring them forward and make them operational in a modern context. Remember, I said 'themes', not scripts; nothing I do is scripted. I am, though, literally dragging forward principles which have been used by all directors, or at least the best of every era. What makes the Loon Show unique is the times we live in now; how I approach each problem and lay it out is my particular style.

 

MB: Your famous - or infamous some would say - for how you bring the audience to a state of abandonment; how is that done?

 

TB: I don't know if 'abandonment' is the right word, uh...let's just call it 'participation', because participation is one of the fundamental requirements for producing Greek tragedies, that the audience somehow participates along with the actors in the performance. On a technical level, I look for participation between the image and the experience, which is dynamic, fluid, it ebbs and flows, thus it can't be plotted out. That's what scripts try to do, but a script forces relationships and not participation, there's no blending, only isolated, pre-conceived positions, and participation, like I said, flows, it goes from the particular to the general then back again, ok?

 

MB: Uh, no, not really.

 

TB: (Laughs) Yeah, I hear ya...look, the Greeks studied the passions of Man, his emotions; they weren't interested in solving intellectual formulas, they wanted to examine the movement of Man's emotions, which is really the most accurate definition of what Drama purports to do, right? The Greeks wanted to follow what moves Man, what his possibilities were. When we look at the remaining 28 Classical plots, we're looking at an exhaustive study into just that, the Desires, Feelings and Justifications of Humanity, set in a story, since all real learning comes in the form of a story, which the Greeks clearly understood. It's my job, then, to ask the pertinent questions of our age, to find out how Man expresses himself in a techno-age devoid of feelings and filled with information that you're responsible for, you know? I ask...I wonder if Man is even able to express himself today, and through my plays, I observe how we get along with one another, how we feel about our world and our lives. Of particular interest, to me at any rate and maybe nobody else, is the question of whether or not Man will be able to express himself in the increasing Mass-Thought that's swallowing and homogenizing everything. My show is about the anti-homogenization of Man, Marty. Oh, we talk about diversity, you know, but we don't really mean anything other than an exterior show of forms, an antiseptic diversity which is fraudulent, since real diversity can be dirty, mean, even ugly. The plays I perform present a truly diverse view, and it's a view of a shrinking world and a shrinking human, increasingly separated from his natural thoughts, feelings and the world around him, yet the Mass continues to swell, Marty. How will he, us, you and me, geez, how will we survive, man, especially since the elites have long ago abandoned mechanistic thought, while we peasants are still stuck A to B to C, looking for causes and effects and trying to define everything without ever understanding what we're trying to define?

 

MB: You've been heavily criticized for unleashing the vilest and dirtiest feelings inside of people, giving free reign to the emotions, especially the negative ones. Doesn't this frighten you, seeing the violence and hatred that your plays unleash? How do you respond to that?

 

TB: First of all, there are no 'negative' or right versus wrong emotions; that implies a set of positive emotions, and then you get into bizarre forms of trying to control a part of who we are while liberating another part, like Scientology and its 'seek positive emotions only' bullshit. All of our emotions are a part of us, Marty, you can't filter out or select what you want and don't want, and that's what I'm talking about with the mechanistic thought we're still plagued by, the dualism that says either-or, right-wrong, white- black. But yeah, in one sense, what I do does scare the shit outta me, come on, man, when an entire audience suddenly explodes from some pent-up, collective feeling of outrage and the place turns upside down? Geez...But I know that somewhere in there, in that madness, is the truth of where Man is at; somewhere in that explosion lies Man at his brutal essence. As to releasing unwanted emotions that are somehow 'bad' in and of themselves, that's the standard Platonic horse-shit argument that Art and Theater are poor guides to understanding ourselves and only unleash what is worse in us, something that's been refuted and disproved over and over, starting with Aristotle on down, remember what Oscar Wilde said to Walter Pater, “Art doesn't and shouldn't have to teach, asshole, it should be aimed at pleasure and if you learn something, great, and if not, it can still be art.”

 

MB: I'm not familiar with that.

 

TB: Well, I take Aristotle's view ultimately, that good art is cathartic, it cleanses and brings about understanding. Now, I didn't say joy, though, but a good feeling, which is what Hippocrates said, too, that art's good for you, although, it's funny, Marty, because from the disgusting amount of television and video our society is currently gobbling up, it makes me wonder if maybe Plato wasn't right after all, you know? Maybe TV is fucking us up big-time...I dunno, I've seen enough people leave my shows changed or affected so deeply and in an ultimately good way that I'm beyond being concerned if it works or doesn't or is good for us or whatever, fuck all that mechanistic crap, it works in my life and those around me and everyone who experiences my shows, you yourself said you've never seen anything like it or the feeling you had afterwards, right?

 

MB: Yeah, that's true, at the shows I was at, I haven't ever seen...well, what goes on at the Loon Show.

 

TB: Truthfully, how could you? These plays really haven't been performed for years, and really after Aristotle, public catharsis wasn't done by anybody, hell, we're the only people here in the states that I'm aware of who've really plugged into the meaning and true purpose of the Classical tragedies. From what I've seen, and I haven't seen everything that's been produced, believe me, but from seeing crap like 'Jackass', you know...

 

MB: I was going to ask you about that.

 

TB: Sure, I've heard people say, “Tad, 'Jackass' is much more extreme than the Loon Show,” like that's the standard we should be compared to, geez...but on the one hand, true, so many of the scenes they depict are brutal, even incomprehensible, like a typical night at the Loon Show, but it can't be compared to the Loon Show simply because there's overt pain or... 'Jackass' is pure pornography, all action with no essence, nothing meaningful, it doesn't participate with its audience, it's done in controlled, filmed settings all scripted out, and isn't theater in any sense of the word. Yeah, guys get hurt but that's about where any comparison begins and ends. Just because they and the Loon Show often frame acts of cruelty, or what the Masters called 'Epiharukakia', which is a love of giving pain to others and can be thought of as...what?

 

MB: Tad (Laughing) you keep coming up with these...terms I've never heard of, epi...what was that?

 

TB: Yeah, I can be a little arcane at times, sorry...look, I'm not trying to overwhelm you with my brilliance, ok? But it's important you understand that I don't just perform whatever, there's a whole lot of thought that goes into these shows, and these are the terms and tools that I use.

 

MB: It's quite a...challenging vocabulary.

 

TB: Hey, I demand excellence of myself, and I am not ashamed of what I do in my shows, either. I'm looking for moral clarity, because at my essence I'm a poet, and what I feel, everyone feels, I just articulate better than most, and yeah, I'm demanding, I'm tough, but I'm equally kind and gentle.

 

MB: But you...you dupe people, you fool them.

 

TB: Or course, my job is to fool you into participating, Marty, I have to, in theater, it's required, but this isn't understood nowadays because nobody teaches the Classics anymore, so my shows look like chaos and mayhem...

 

MB: The Loon Show has a very loose, almost an amateurish feel to it.

 

TB: Yeah, that's what I'm after, the rough, the raw, the human, the dirt and imperfect, the coming-to-be as opposed to the rehearsed and polished. I don't want slick and produced and prepared...

 

MB: Almost like a 3 ring circus.

 

TB: That's a great analogy, Marty, yeah, you can't concentrate or focus on everything going on, you can only feel, and my job during all this is to lead your imagination and suspend your thinking, to lay out the universals, not the so-called truths, and to marry everything with ecstasy. The whole thing's a farce, really, in the truest sense of the word, right? where nobody knows what's going on, shit's happening all around you and on stage...look, my one recurring theme, if you will, is exposing whoever's on stage to the community, unmasking them and then giving people the chance to actually talk back at them, the things that frustrate and oppress, people get a chance to say what they feel about all the things and people that tyrannize us, especially the system itself. My show does that, and that's why its been called real democracy, and has a real organic/

 

MB: But wait, you've been labeled a racist; isn't that anti-democratic?

 

TB: Marty, racism is something instinctive in all of us, my tribe or group against everybody else. But racism now is a blanket-word which appeals to some god-like generality which everybody's intuitively supposed to just understand and pray to, you know? Geez...Sure, by raising racism in my shows I'm of course defined by the dull-witted as being one. It really shows you how poorly we attempt to penetrate and understand something new or challenging, and how easily we accept the old and familiar. We're really mentally lazy, and yeah, my shows challenge all those concepts the mentally-lazy bring in.

 

MB: Speaking of concepts, you're quite critical of psychology and its concepts of self/

 

TB: Hell yes I am! Concepts don't participate with you, Marty, and psychology...geez, anemic modern psychology tries to predict and define our emotions, tries to fix them and our behavior into rigid systems, but like Aristotle, I don't accept that shit, Man can't be predicted, and any attempt to do so is an outright theft of our basic humanity and is an effort to enslave us.

 

MB: That seems rather extreme, Tad.

 

TB: It is and I don't give a fuck. Until psychology recognizes the soul and all things that make up the soul, including and I mean all of our emotions, it will continue to be a useless discipline to the majority of us. Look at grief counselors, for example: your natural emotion all laid out and completed, you're given a set of feelings to feel and those you shouldn't, you're fucking guided along some appropriate path, what fucking horse-shit! Oh yeah, 'safely contain the grieving soul', fuck you, I'll grieve any way I want to, ya...

 

MB: You've said, “Honestly, I don't care where we're at today or what we're doing or saying, I want to know what's been said before so I can see the future.” Do you still feel that way?

 

TB: Of course, sure, we're babbling and searching today, totally fragmented and at the mercy of the guys who've put their systems together and make it look unified, the fucking experts. I look at...I study what's going on today to a degree, sure, but I'm not caught up in today's blinding schizophrenia, I'm anchored in the past and I'm not worried about makings new things. I'm just a sight-reader of the MOMENT, capital letters please, and no, I don't know what will happen, what I want to see in advance in my shows, that's the old dead and dying method of theater because what I do is trust that I'll react when the Moment arises. The Masters have done all my work for me and all I'm doing is applying myself, plugging in and looking around at what is, and what is not.

 

MB: You said the last time we spoke that Greek Thinking is in the Classical Plays and not in the philosophy, yet when I asked a friend who teaches Greek Philosophy, he completely disagreed!

 

TB: I'm not surprised. The academics have murdered and fragmented something that used to be a living organism...there's another example of how fragmentation and reductionism have destroyed our abilities to understand. The universities have removed and reduced the essence of Greek Thought to teachable formulas, convenient for their classrooms but absolutely worthless beyond that. Philosophy is supposed to make your life better, isn't it? The study of wise living and all that, yet the type of philosophy taught in the institutions only seems to make you bitter...

 

MB: That's an interesting point.

 

TB: Sure, but look, I don't mean to perpetually bash the Ivory Towered elites but they're fucking out of touch, Marty, they don't see the natural unification of theater with philosophy, because it's in the tragedies that we see thought in operation, not as some sterile theory to be memorized. Here in the theater is where we see and feel the Classic Greek in action, as he lived, but again, the academics have shrunk Greek Thought into unintelligible, meaningless fragments of expensive obscurity, which is too damn bad because people are in such need of Greek Thought, and you just can't...look, Aristotle and his boys spent all their time at the theater; why? Because they knew that there, in the essential action of Humanity, where the principles of thought lived, there was Man's truth; they rejected academic understanding if the experience didn't touch how you made decisions, right? But I have to add that I don't study the Classics for how the plot unfolds or the fucking scenery, man, I'm looking at what Euripides felt, what his intent was, what does he see and feel, that's my interest, the rest is all horse-shit. I'm drawing out the essence of the plays, I don't re-create them, like I said, and I don't do original work, I'm all about re-discovering what's already been done then putting my stamp on it. Hey, really, the only tools I have are the passions themselves, the language of emotion, ecstasy, and the only ethic I apply is a psychological one aimed at my behavior, a Stoic ethic in a Heraclitean, ever-changing viewpoint, fuck Plato and whether it's right or wrong, man, my plays simply are!

 

MB: Your show is also very musical.

 

TB: Yeah, music is important, it spurs the activity and fills in whatever's missing. You know, music is directly tied to theater, the original Dithyrambs were orgiastic, they were fueled by music.

 

MB: You just mentioned right or wrong, and your theme song, Public Image Limited's 'Rise', is surely some/

 

TB: Marty, if ever there was a perfect song for any show like mine, it's 'Rise'. I mean, Johnny Lydon must have been clairvoyantly channeling the Loon Show when he wrote it, so much of the words and the raw energy of that song really captures the spirit of the show: rebellion versus conformity; the fraudulence of words and ideas; an uncaring authoritarian system which has ruthlessly determined that Johnny's behavior needs correction, and then his response, the validity of his inner world, his emotions; the sense of unlimited horizons, the rising road, his intuition leading him, I mean, that's the Loon Show at its core.

 

MB: Let's swing away from the show for a moment; what do you envision for the future of Comedy and audience-participation events in general?

 

TB: Man, what a subject! Look, the current comedy scene is stilted, boring and offers nothing to a public hungry for things real, man, alive, things you can feel and participate in. Comedy has got to change from its one-sided memorized monologues, 'I say it, you laugh' insulting garbage aimed at lazy-minded 13 year olds, into an interactive, participatory event, where people are brought into something alive and not contrived, spontaneous, an event where the lines of separation between audience, actor and stage are blurred, the activity taking place all around you, and not an intellectual, mental experience but an emotional one, as opposed to, uh...oh, I know there's a ton of people who prefer the antiseptic comedy of today, something they can get away from cleanly at the end of the evening, but at/

 

MB: Tad, forgive me but aren't you describing the Loon Show?

 

TB: ...Yeah, well, in a very real way, I am. The Loon Show emphasizes and exaggerates the emotions, freeing the audience from intellectual messages and tongue-in-cheek witticisms...all that shit about character and inflection makes me puke, geez. People need what I do, Marty, my 'regulated madness', we release, man, we purge, sure, the Loon Show encourages all that shit and more, but in a meaningful way.

 

MB: (Laughs) You sound like a professor at times! I thought your events were absurd; how are they meaningful?

 

TB: Absurdity is all about the search for meaning, and I look for meaning in my work, and I find meaning on an emotional level, in my soul. Meaning is not an intellectual exercise, it does not come from knowledge or fact; meaning and understanding are emotional reactions, things you feel. You've heard it before, when a person suddenly understands something, they have that 'Ah ha!' moment, right? That's when they connect emotionally to the meaning; it stirs them.

 

MB: I've interviewed several directors before, but I've never heard any of them suggest that they don't in some way pre-script their work or have an image in mind that they're trying to create, or that they aren't attempting something original, yet you say none of those are your aims.

 

TB: No, I don't operate from scripts and I'm not interested in the traditional exterior movements of the plays or imagining something prior then insisting that that image be enacted. Yeah, maybe other directors see things differently, but I'm not about to comment or compare my efforts with theirs. All I know is I'm not focused on being original, though I realize there's nothing anywhere like the Loon Show; my methods are found in the Classics and are available to anyone, but nobody's doing them except me. I'm just re-interpreting the themes which have been passed down, while choreographing the madness that ensues, or rather, I coordinate the experiences of audience and performers, to be more accurate. If I'm original or creative at all, it's in what I bring to the events.

 

MB: You mention creativity; do you have any thoughts on the creative process you'd like to share?

 

TB: Sure, in fact, I'd love to address that, since there are so many pop theories and eclectic combinations of half-baked ideas today that the whole concept of creativity has become clouded, everybody getting stoned and interpreting whatever they do as 'creativity'. I just ignore what's popular now, since that'll surely change with the next strong breeze, but if you'll indulge me, let me lay out 3 arguments that come to mind.

 

MB: Go right ahead.

 

TB: Some believe creativity is an emotional inspiration, a gift really, a key with which the individual has access and can open a veritable well, drawing from it powerful surges of intuitive energy, subject of course to the ebbing and flowing of an expressive, sensitive soul. In many ways, I ascribe to this school of thought, but with a twist, which I'll offer in a second, but others feels that creativity is the manipulation and perfection of technique through prolonged, rigorous and disciplined training to acquire mastery of a particular skill; then, having mastered said technique, creativity becomes a factor in interpreting and re-shaping existing works. This 'creativity of forms' forgoes emotional 'inspiration' in favor of intellectual 'understanding', and is mainly of concern in technical and educational circles, or classical music or trade guilds with their fixed forms of how things must be done. Others feel, and this is popular today in spiritual communities, that creativity is the result of a personal revolution, an examination and re-ordering of one's life and the subsequent energy that it produces. This argument states that true creativity cannot take place until the existing dualistic, mechanistic system of perception is overturned, taken apart and examined, then replaced with some method of philosophical observation or an entirely new system, usually based on Hindu or Buddhist teachings and focused on the study of Being. This process often comes in the middle or even end of one's life, and isn't subject to the short-term demands of a product-mad marketplace, or the zeal of youth. The psychologist, Wayne Dyer, calls this period “the afternoon of one's life” and he's right, youth cannot really be creative or produce lasting creative works until maturity, when the essential re-ordering takes place.

 

MB: Where do you come down on that?

 

TB: Personally, I don't feel there's any one right way or time in one's life to be creative, only respective methods. We can, of course, judge the outcomes, and this is where I generally come down on the side of those hard-working souls who harness their technique and yet are periodically infused with creative intuitive explosions, visions and feelings which drive their technique. You gotta have the chops in order to be able to use those inspired creative moments when they occur. Toteras taught this method, to train hard and yet be ready when the moment awakens; in truth he taught a 24 hour a day awareness, an ability to be creative, which for him meant responsive, to be ON at every moment. Now today, creativity can really only be measured on a subjective level, since we've shattered all standards; any other objective criterion for establishing creative standards smacks of fascism, people start howling and...look, we reject putting limitations on what we can and can't express, since creativity should be allowed to explode into whatever direction it feels in the moment, directions which are unknown until that creative moment has arrived. Take Myron, for example: he goes somewhere then comes back and shares it with us, he enters states of maniacal enthusiasm, convulsions of intuition, he becomes possessed, laletic, he speaks in tongues, right? You've seen him; just like the Orphic or Dionysian schools of ecstasy, Myron divines the truth then brings it back for us.

 

MB: That's quite a statement but yeah, I've seen him, though I'm not convinced he's...prophetic as you say, though he's certainly disturbing.

 

TB: Yeah, but he never actually injures or even touches anyone, he's been hit from 5 feet away with frozen tomatoes and he hasn't ever reacted violently, he's a beautiful, old soul who dives into his feelings, he is beyond belief, man, he's exactly what all the fucking wannabe Buddhist Yuppies are all trying to become, the Intuitive, Feeling Man. Myron is pure feeling, geez, and I'm barely scratching the surface, Marty, I could discuss that guy all day.

 

MB: Tell me about some of your other performers, Al Starr, Lommen, Lee Howard in particular.

 

TB: Al Starr, the genius. This guy came around when I was doing the Farting Contest, and he got sucked into the vortex. Starr was lured into the Classical...actually, the pre-Classical aspect of the Farting Contest, his specialty...he was a contestant I should add, then when we started doing the Loon Show, there he was, a fucking natural, caustic, witty, vicious yet with a benign professorial sweetness and some bizarre evil Charles Manson capability there, too, I love Al, another guy that'd never harm anything, just another curious brother, and Lommen, look, Lommen penetrates the room with his listening, I know exactly what he's doing, I do it, too, sometimes, you hear ahead of what the guy is saying or the exchange about to happen and you drive it, lead it, magnify it after it's been released to you...Lommen's amazing and another guy who turns the violence on himself, like Myron or Al Starr, something that, in almost every instance, overcomes whatever opposition's being thrown at him, almost, I should add, there've been some nights, man...and Lee Howard, wow, immensely talented, knows exactly what he's doing in order to provoke the crowd's complete and total release of hatred, I've never seen an audience hate anyone as much as they do Lee, he's a genius in that way, he's really able to explore the darkest of energies and allow his inner tortured world to become the vehicle for the audience's catharsis, and all with a smile, almost relishing in the abuse. Amazing, really.

 

MB: I heard in one of the shows he actually raped a woman on-stage, is that true?

 

TB: (Smiling) Nah, that was...look, Lee Howard is very similar to Myron, in that he simply explodes at times, he bypasses thought altogether, all that 'should I or shouldn't I' inner deliberation bullshit, he simply goes with his impulse and sometimes that impulse can be, uh...

 

MB: So he did rape her...

 

TB: Well, not really rape, Marty, uh...maybe the exterior act of, I guess, but...look, it's theater, right? It's complicated.

 

MB: I'd say it is...a question about the Farting Contests, why did you perform only one of them? That could have been a national craze, going city to city, you know? What happened?

 

TB: Yeah, we were seriously considering it but Toteras wasn't about just one play, he had an agenda, he had several plays he wanted to see performed so we moved on. Sure, coulda been a big hit, but as they say, coulda woulda shoulda...

 

MB: I get it, ok, talk about Demetrius Toteras for a moment, not his life or background but maybe some of the more intimate or private things he's passed on to you.

 

TB: Well, much of what you're asking is private and meant only for me, a master director instructing his eager, green pupil, but yeah, I, uh...

 

MB: What would you say, then, is the most important thing that Toteras has taught you, aside from all the technical material?

 

TB: ...I'd have to say it's an attitude, a sense of confidence that I can take on anyone, any thought, any situation and not lose myself. Toteras, geez, what haven't I learned from him, and my wife, really, both have taught me perhaps the most important lesson I can ever use in my shows and, truly, just in living, and that is generosity. There's a real art to it, in fact, real art, great art must be generous, it must include, and it must be sincere, empathetic, you can't perform or fake generosity, man...no, I've learned the tools of generosity from Toteras and my wife, an essential attitude that doesn't fear the moment, the future, people, really, that doesn't fear anything, but that does enjoy it all...you learn to take everything in stride, Marty, that's the key.

 

MB: Do you plan to speak at length about him down the road?

 

TB: Marty, Toteras died a little over a year ago and I just haven't...but really, I keep wavering between wanting to share my experiences with the world, and keeping them all to myself. And truly, the subject of Demetrius Toteras is so huge, so vast that it's hard to find the appropriate opening or moment to enter, there's so much to say about him and I want to do that right and when the time is right, and it hasn't been yet. I will, surely, and I may just save all that for a book, we'll see...I'm working on an archive website and I may just address it all there, let's see...

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